Past seminars

Labour Party Conference 2005

Environment Question Time

5.30 - 7.00 pm, Monday 26 September 2005

Venue: The King's Hotel, Kings Road, Brighton

Panel:

Elliot Morley MP, Minister of state for the Environment.
Baroness Barbara Young, Chief Executive of the Environment Agency
Dirk Hazell, Chief Executive, Environmental Services Association
Philip Sellwood, Chief excutive, Energy Saving Trust

Sponsors:

The Environment Agency
Environmental Services Association
Energy Saving Trust

Q1. David Lowry (member of the SERA Energy Group) asked the panel to comment on the recent report in the Times newspaper stating that Tony Blair in New York speaking with Washington officials, has now given up his commitment to Kyoto targets.

Dirk Hazel: Tony Blair made it very clear in Gleneagles that Climate Change is a priority for him - so we shouldn't question that. With reference to the piece in the Times, I would need more detail as to what had been reported.

Elliot Morley: Tony Blair did not take back his commitment to tackling climate change - this piece in the Times does not accurately represent the discussions that took place in New York. Kyoto is reaching the end of its life - there would always come a time when we would have to start to look beyond Kyoto agreements, and I think that is what Tony Blair would have alluded to in the discussions. Kyoto targets are not that challenging, but they were a start - it maybe now time to look beyond those targets to a second phase.

Barbara Young: I have not seen the Times report but sincerely hope we are not abandoning our important leadership role in tackling climate change.

Phillip Sellwood: Yes, Kyoto is running its course - there will be a need to look beyond Kyoto, however it would be very unfortunate if Tony Blair were seen to be abandoning climate change as a key priority, undermining the work of his ministers.

Q2. How will the Climate Change review enable us to meet our 2020 targets by encouraging the development of renewable energy?

Elliot Morley: The Climate Change Review is on track for publication in November and is looking at new measures to meet our 2020 targets, through fiscal measures, the code for sustainable buildings, changes to building regulations in April, and a renewable fuel obligation. I agree that if we are serious about the contribution of industry to meeting targets we will need to look at further incentives for renewables.

Barbara Young: We should make sure we shouldn't go for Nuclear or Carbon capture. We must make sure the climate change review gives the right signals otherwise investment will move away from renewables. Inclusion of aviation into the EU Emissions Trading Scheme, Road Transport charging - these are measures we need to make sure we meet our climate change commitments. We need diversification in our energy supply - we should not divert investment away from renewables into expensive clean coal technologies - no one has really done it successfully yet.

Phillip Sellwood: Why aren't we looking at energy conservation, in relation to meeting our climate change targets? This seems to be absent form the debate, which is currently focussed on new technologies.

Q3. If you were going to have a flutter on the chances of us meeting our 20% emissions reductions targets from 1990 levels, by 2020, how would you bet?

Elliot Morley: I tend to go for sure fire bets. I would need to see the outcome of the climate change review.

Phillip Sellwood: I have been known to gamble - I would be placing a shallow bet each way, but I would like to see a firm government commitment to microgeneration.

Q4. The government has introduced a number of measures to tackle road transport emissions and road user charging has been proposed, however, how is the removal of fuel tax and car tax going to help?

Phillip Sellwood: Road user charging, if it is introduced without environmental considerations may produce a perverse incentive to drive longer journeys and less fuel efficient cars - if it is introduced on the basis of the car and not on CO2 emissions. I agree in principle with road user charging but it must take into account the type of car so that it has an environmental aspect to it.

Elliot Morley: I agree with road user charging, but it needs to be constructed in such a way as to have an environmental aspect to it.

Dirk Hazel: I would like to see a government commitment to increased fuel cost if people are genuinely keen to affect climate change.

Q5. Why isn't more being done to limit the expansion of short haul flights.

Barbara Young: I must say I feel rather guilty flying to Prague for a few days! There is no doubt that air travel will have to get more expensive if we are to have a sustainable transport policy.

Elliot Morley: Aviation fuel is not currently taxed because of international Chicago Convention agreements. We do, however, have the power to bring in EU level agreements, and we should aim to bring aviation into the EU emissions trading scheme, at the earliest time possible, which would be 2008. There is good support form the aviation industry for this. We can start the process to get agreement by 2008 under the EU presidency. But 2008 is a long way off - in the meantime we need to look at other interim measures. An interim strategy should focus on encouraging airlines to invest in improving fuel efficiency and technological development.

Q7. What is being done to develop community grant scheme for energy generation at a local level?

Elliot Morley: We will be looking more at community level microgeneration and biomass schemes in hospitals and schools. We want to look at further ways to encourage this in addition to the many grants available that have been well used so far.

Phillip Sellwood - Community energy programmes can deliver to densely populated areas and help to alleviate fuel poverty, they are cost effective and help to bring communities together through solving their own energy problems.

Q11. What is being done to promote environment education?

Phillip Sellwood: Currently environmental education is disparate and disjointed - this is something that needs to be improved.

Barbara Young: We need to know what can be done through the curriculum and integrating environmental education into professional training of builders, engineers and planners.

Dirk Hazel: Children now are the ones who will be most greatly affected so certainly environmental education should be included in the curriculum.

Q12. At present partisan lobbying from industry is weakening possible advances in environmental regulation. What can be done to make sure that the progressive voices from industry come through more?

Barbara Young: Environmental considerations are good for knocking off business costs - we need to make industry see that environmental policy is not bad for business. Company Law is at present too voluntary, environmental reporting should be mandatory for companies of a certain size, for certain environmental impacts and we need to be able to track this over time.

Dirk Hazel: Businesses are recently much better - awareness has improved greatly; even the financial services sector is changing. Having said that three quarters of businesses do not know the waste law on fly tipping - we must educate them through sector skills. Major companies must have a clear regard of their environmental duties. Government has to give a clear picture of what it wants companies to achieve - industry needs certainty.

Elliot Morley: Corporate Social responsibility is becoming increasingly commonplace and serves to set an example; those who are engaged in CSR show up those who aren't.

Q14.Will there be investment into new nuclear energy?

Barbara Young: Nuclear is capital intensive and will take 15 years before we are able to start generating nuclear energy. We need to look at how investment in nuclear will effect investment in other technologies, as well as the costs of nuclear waste disposal as well as public acceptance issue.

Elliot Morley: The Energy White paper did leave the door open for the expansion of nuclear. Personally, I don't think nuclear development is economically viable and since no one is offering to pay - it would certainly need to have financial support from the government. Is it the right time for that? Should we not be putting this money into renewables and other efficiency measures? I would prefer to see investment into carbon capture technologies, although some say we are close to Nuclear fusion. I'm not sure nuclear stands up on the economics front.

Dirk Hazel: Those who don't invest in renewable technologies are either dinosaurs or dodos.

Chair of SERA Hywel Lloyd, asked the panel for any final comments they would like to give:

Dirk Hazel: We agree with what the government is starting to do, but could they please do it faster!

Elliot Morley: SERA play's a crucial role in influencing government policy. Yes, it's a slow process - but all individuals can have an impact by pressing for action within their own individual circumstances - at work, in your jobs - this helps to speed things along in government.

Barbara Young: We have proven that the Labour Party can be good for business, and we are proving that the environment can be good for business - the government must not be scared of making bold changes.

Phillip Sellwood: People don't currently realise the potential of energy efficiency measures - to give you one example: if we all had cavity wall insulation, where possible we could save 12 million tons of carbon.

Hywel Lloyd, Chair of SERA closes the meeting.